Now THIS just makes me mad!!! (

looking8186 04-14-2009 09:04 AM

Now THIS just makes me mad!!!
I get weekly email updates from Parent’s magazine throughout my pregnancy telling me how many weeks I am etc. but this one just made me mad!
This is what is started with-

“So here’s the real deal on breastfeeding: No one’s disputing that it’s hands-down the best nutrition a newborn can get, but it may not be possible for some moms (here are the main reasons why) — even those who give it their absolute best shot. More on this below. ”

Here’s what it links to–…mh=dm17.374955

Are you KIDDING ME?? I mean seriously as a first time mom who is a bit freaked out to start with but luckily 200% committed to breastfeeding this just p!sses me off!! There are so many moms who if they were unsure would just be freaked out by that and not even want to try :yuck: And come on… may not be possible because of those issues, seriously I think everyone who bfs deals with some amount of leaking, engorgement, nipple confusion (not if you don’t introduce bottles/pacis though DUH), and sore nipples but that DOES NOT mean that you CAN’T bf. I understand that there are some moms who literally CAN’T due to various issues but to basically tell new moms that if they deal with these problems they CAN’T! To me that is just ridiculous :banghead:

mimanchibella 04-14-2009 09:42 AM

Re: Now THIS just makes me mad!!!
now, you post makes me horribly angry! I didnt read the entire thing, but did you ever think to step off of your high horse and think of us mamas that CANT bf? Try delevering your LO at 24 weeks, watching him suffer through things that NO child should have to endure and then two weeks later, when it is time to stop IV fluids, NOT BEING ABLE TO PRODUCE ****! I tried. I failed. You are no better than me.
looking8186 04-14-2009 09:48 AM

Re: Now THIS just makes me mad!!!

Originally Posted by mimanchibella (Post 6938546)
now, you post makes me horribly angry! I didnt read the entire thing, but did you ever think to step off of your high horse and think of us mamas that CANT bf? Try delevering your LO at 24 weeks, watching him suffer through things that NO child should have to endure and then two weeks later, when it is time to stop IV fluids, NOT BEING ABLE TO PRODUCE ****! I tried. I failed. You are no better than me.

Ahem… Excuse me :headscratch: Please… If you are going to comment about my post.. please please please read all the way through it.

“I understand that there are some moms who literally CAN’T but to basically tell new moms that if they deal with these problems they CAN’T! To me that is just ridiculous”

If you have EVER read ANY of my posts you would know that I am often the one standing up for moms in tough situations. I formula fed many a foster babe and have absoloutly NOTHING against formula feeding. What frustrates me it the LACK OF SUPPORT that new mothers receive and how THAT in itself can make new moms not want to breastfeed. I said NOTHING about moms not breastfeeding when either they or their lo’s have medical issues or even when they just choose not to. My post was IN NO WAY a bash at formula feeding moms only at the companies/organizations who bash/portray breastfeeding in a bad light. I’m truly sorry that you had such a bad experience :hugs: but PLEASE look twice before you crucify someone who didn’t even do anything to you.

Here- I even edited the post to say “may not be possible because of those issues ” (meaning the ones stated in that article) to hopefully make it 100000% clear that I AM NOT bashing moms who CAN’T bf

I hate mommy wars, but if you’re going to fight one, at least don’t go all non sequitur.

  1. AshleyB says:

    The original poster had to know that would start some controversy though.

  2. screenname says:

    Of course it will. There’s always someone who was unhappy with how things turned out but feels the need to justify their situation to the world at every given opportunity. Breastfeeding is always emotionally charged.

    But why would someone who doesn’t breastfeed be in the breastfeeding support forum anyway? Isn’t that the whole point of having bf and ff forums separate?

  3. theinvisible says:

    I really don’t think she was trying to. She put little disclaimers in all of her sentences. Really, if you are going to get really upset about something at least read it completely to make sure what you are about to post as a response even applies. I thought I was quick to get shitty with someone……Jeez.

  4. try me, i'm new! says:

    wow – starting a mommy war before even having her first kid! it took me at least a week before i started feeling all superior and self-righteous (she said w/ tongue firmly lodged in cheek).

    seriously, bf, ff, do what works for your life, but can you save the controversy until after you’ve gone through the thing you’re judging yourself?

    I’m w/ Ashley B – she HAD to have known she was staring something. I don’t want to go to virus ville – is she a new poster or something?

    and what’s up w/ saying her outrage is b/c of the lack of support bf moms get? Her OP had nothing about that and she had to even edit it to add her disclaimers.

    as for the article – I, for one, think it’s GOOD that someone is acknowledging the troubles moms might have w/ bf. Too many peeps are all, on, it might hurt for a bit, but then it’s all puppies and sunshine rainbows! Maybe Parents went too far w/ the whole “might not be able to” angle, but really, new moms NEED to know their struggles are usually normal and can be overcome, and to know that, they need to know what they’re up against so they can prepare themselves. Lack of forewarning and overmuch cramming of unicorn horns up new moms’ butts is what results in the majority of desperate midnight formula runs (said w/ all usual disclaimers, my dd1 was ff due to personal medical issues, etc).

  5. twatwaffles & cuntcakes says:

    mimanchibella is a bipolar psycho.

  6. TL says:

    seriously I do not miss the mama pissing contests on ds!

  7. Munklettes says:

    #3, LMAO! Oh, I had the pre-first-baby superiority complex, then had my ass handed to me after he was born!

  8. not just another mama says:

    oh my gosh. what the fuck. another example of why you should read before you post!

  9. JustPeachy says:

    Hm well I guess I am going to side with the poster because ummmmmmm been there done that. I don’t like the fear tactics these magazines use. Its bad enough being a first time mom but to scare the ever loving shit out of us about bfing?????? Thats just wrong.
    And the reason I do side with the poster is I had all of those problems. I had mastitis which developed into a cyst, clogged ducts, bruised myself while trying to unclog said ducts, yeast, sore nipples, nipple confusion, AND a freaking low supply and yet somehow miraculously I managed to make it til dd weaned at 11 months.
    Thats not to say I think anything is wrong with ffing as Saedra is my first bf baby.

  10. itsraininghere says:

    I just think it’s funny that she thinks she knows it all when she hasn’t even tried to bf.

    oh and the other lady was just crazy. chill out. it’s not about you. *phew*

  11. I think that You should do what is best for you and not try to worry about what anyone else thinks or says about it. To each his or her own as they say.

  12. trolltastic says:

    wtf, mimanchibella ? i had a nicu baby, i breastfed, it was hard but it really has nothing to do with your milk production.

  13. Madre says:

    I hate when people respond w/o reading. It’s so unnecessarily stupid.

  14. JustPeachy says:

    I don’t think shes a know it all but I do think it does piss her off that their is pretty much no support in any of the parenting magazines. When I was pregnant with Saedra all the bfing articles were pretty much like that one with the idea that oh at the slightest sign of trouble give up.

  15. indysteffanie says:

    I had all those issues too peach, and kept at it.

    only to have anderson have to get a gtube at 15 months, for failure to thrive…

    thats right, my superior mommy milk was starving him.

    its not always so cut and dry, kwim?

  16. indysteffanie says:

    trollastic–i wanted to add that sometimes when babies come really early (like the poster) the thyroid maybe to blame.

    if the thyroid is to blame then its probably to blame with her milk production or lack there of.

    also there are studies that say the earlier you deliver the more it confuses your body…

    as you are preggo your hormones build up, when you deliver you have a big drop in those hormones which signals milk production….basically the shorter amount of time you are preggo the less drop you have, so the harder time you could have producing milk.

  17. lollerskating says:

    wow, now there’s people here doin the same freak out. How weird.

  18. not just another mama says:

    I had issues breastfeeding. I was told that if wasn’t ever suppose to hurt, that it should be oh so natural… And that was total BS. Thankfully I knew better then to just give up & talk with a lactation consultant who broke down the truth. I think its easier to give up when you’re running on 2 hours of sleep, your body is wacked out on hormones, and you think you child hates you… kwim? I doubt most give up because an article says its okay..

  19. JustPeachy says:

    Steffanie I am so sorry that happened to you. I know its not always so cut and dry. The point I was trying to make (which I think got twisted) is that alot of women don’t try. They give up at the slightest bump in the road. You tried and did everything you could to keep bfing which I know took alot. I didn’t mean to offend you or hurt your feelings 🙂

  20. mimanchibella (AKA OsMos -edited by DSDM2-) says:

    You know, I dont spend much time on DS, so I didnt know that it was spefically for BFing moms… Sorry!

  21. thewhiteninja says:

    She had to know that her post would cue all the FF moms to come promote that formula is just as healthy as breastmilk.

    (Which I don’t understand b/c even when I FF my first I was still a lactivist).

  22. OsMos says:

    I am MIMANCHIBELLA, i dont know what else went on in that thread, as I dont know how to look for things that I replied to, but I do not think that formula is better for baby!

  23. not just another mama says:

    Well formula is not better for a baby.. Which is why some brands market it to be “almost as good as breastmilk”, etc.. because breastmilk is BEST.. now that doesn’t mean formula is toxic by any means, but its not better then formula.

  24. not just another mama says:

    the last part was meant to be but its not better then breastmilk*

    darn not having edit buttons!

  25. indysteffanie says:

    oh peach…my feelings arent hurt.

    i was just merely stating it wasnt always black and white.

    we are actually still breastfeeding, he just also gets formula straight in his belly 6 times a day…lol

    i absolutely knew what you meant, and i think its sad when women dont even try.

  26. Booyah says:

    BLARGH. Parents magazine is garbage anyway. Tons of ads for crap that you probably don’t need, spaced out with filler fluff “articles.” It’s better suited to give to my 8-month-old to shred for fun than to bother reading.

    I gotta say that I am on Team OP on this one. I’m tired of every “ZOMG I COULDN’T BF STOP TELLING ME I AM A HORRIBLE MOTHER!!!!2!@12!@!!!!” wingnut to come barrelling out guns a-blazing every time someone says anything even remotely related to breastfeeding. YES WE ALL KNOW SOME MOMS CAN’T BREASTFEED. If anyone actually has the balls to say, “All moms can BF and if you don’t it means you’re going to hell!” then by all means hand her ass to her. But so far I’ve never seen anyone in the history of the internet insinuate such a thing. It sucks if you couldn’t BF even though you tried really hard, but seriously….get over yourself.

    If anything, these women should be pissed at PARENTING MAGAZINE for being so flippant about breastfeeding “problems.” If you tried your damndest to BF and it just wasn’t int he cards, wouldn’t you be pissed at the people who gave up because it “hurt” or because their “milk dried up” 2 days after delivery? Not at the moms who are annoyed at those who give up so easily?

    I mean, shit. If I were a paraplegic and stuck in a wheelchair for life, I’d sure be pissed if someone said, “Gosh I just hate having to walk everywhere. It’s so annoying and stupid. I’m going to buy a power scooter cuz walking is just too hard.”

  27. Hawk says:

    Mini man chi is a crazy ass bitch. She’s another one of those ‘cafe moms’. Can we expect less?


    ‘I didnt read the entire thing to know if I should even be angry, but OMGZ outrage! Outrage!’ …

  28. cdc3030 says:

    GOD I get sick of this topic. Seriously. Ok, yell at me some more, but how can some moms not breastfeed??? I mean, before formula, babies just all died? Yeah Yeah, there were wet nurses for A FEW babies who could not feed on their mamas, but in the US only 65% of moms even try to BF at birth. In sweden? 98%. You gonna tell me that US boobs are that much more defective than Swedish boobs? Yep, BFing can be hard. Can hurt. That is why stupid mags like parenting should be burned. Whatever. Oh, yeah, wat to yell at me for something else? NOT ALL CSECTIONS ARE NECESSARY. so there.

  29. KAL says:

    she asked for it signing up for that stupid ass parenting mag update thing! What do you expect from parenting mag????

    PS. I breastfeed & my son is a genius! Suck on that!

  30. Booyah says:

    CDC let’s makeout.

  31. dirtyj says:

    I stay away from these topics. I am a lacatavist and 100% pro breastfeeding, but it is NOT my business.
    I only cringe when I see people taking advice from people giving false information or lack of experience.
    Breastfeeding CAN be hard. It was tough for me the first time around. and there are situations where it is near impossible.
    Over all, I feel like MOST women can breastfeed. Should they? Yes
    But if they dont, is it my business to scrutinize why they didn’t?

    I share my knowledge and opinions when asked. I see no fault in the OP post. It is her opinion.

    I have seen this topic gone over a thousand times and have decided that it is not my place to make another feel bad for not breastfeeding. I will continue to offer suggestions when asked but know when to say hey mama, you did your best.

  32. Monkey says:

    Ok, I’ve written a book… sorry. 😦

    This is a really sensitive topic and it bothers me that some people can be so flippant and snotty about it.

    I do think Mimichan was wrong… but I also understand why she got so upset. There is such a level of judgment for women who can’t bf or have trouble (you can say you haven’t seen it, but I promise you it’s there).
    I had convinced myself while I was pregnant that I would nurse my son until he self-weaned and I would be so awesome at it because I really wanted to do it.

    Due to medical complications, a previous breast reduction, an unexpected c-section and latch problems (I have nipples the size of dinner plates!) I had a HORRIBLE time breastfeeding. I became OBSESSED with it because I kept seeing other moms promoting bf’ing as if it was the only reason to be a woman and you were a horrible person if you didn’t or couldn’t (and yes, I have seen posts like this). It got to the point that I was getting up every hour to nurse or pump (this went on for weeks). I tried every remedy I could find to up my supply. I had to start supplemental feedings because DS’s weight was low. I cried like it was the end of the world.

    Finally at 6 months I quit. I realized that I was so obsessed with being a “good mom” and nursing, that I wasn’t enjoying my time with my child. It was the best decision I made. Instead of being obsessed with pumps and nursing and not sleeping I was able to actually spend time with my child and enjoy being in his life. But it also broke my heart. I have been made to feel ashamed by both mothers on the internet and in real life for not nursing longer.

    I also had an emergency c-section that probably wasn’t necessary. DH and I didn’t know… we weren’t in our home, we were alone, my son’s heartbeat dropped, I had been in labor 36 hours, the cord was around his neck and I was terrified. Between the c-section and the nursing trouble I got into a horrible depression where I felt like I was a terrible mother, like I had failed as a woman… I honestly felt like my son wasn’t mine, because if he was there wouldn’t have been all these problems.

    I finally joined an online support group and got my head on straight. Yes, a lot of that was probably PPD, but I honestly feel like some of it was the pressure we are made to feel. I actually had a woman tell me that I shouldn’t say I had “given birth” because I had a c-section.

    I guess I’m just saying people should try to be understanding. Yes, bf is best, and yes, most mothers CAN bf and yes a lot of mother’s don’t try (I am a total lactivist BECAUSE of my experience, I think there needs to be a lot more support out there)… but some people genuinely can’t and some people have an incredibly hard time. Statements like this, “Ok, yell at me some more, but how can some moms not breastfeed???” hurt. They feel like a judgment.

    I consider myself fortunate that I have reached a place where that doesn’t pain me and I can be okay with my decisions and my efforts. I know that I tried my hardest and did the best for my child. I’ve come to terms with this problem, apparently mimichan hasn’t. And I would never says she’s crazy because of it because I’ve been through something similar and I can sympathize. Hopefully she’ll reach a point where she forgives herself and understands that she doesn’t need to lash out or defend herself.

  33. AshleyB says:

    #28. Not all moms can BF. Seriously. I know people seem to think EVERYONE can, but they can’t. My son has a mild case of Pierre Robin sequence (under developed lower jaw) and literally couldn’t latch. Not even onto a bottle. We had to syringe feed him at first until the jaw came out enough to latch a bottle. He still couldn’t even latch onto an Avent bottle at 1 year because of it. Physically, his jaw isn’t developed enough…so now you know someone who physically couldn’t BF. And I know “blahblah.PUMP.blahblah” but it really just doesn’t work alone.
    **Also, I really hate the BF/FF debate! I tend to avoid those topics! I even hate myself for continuing the debate by posting this…but it needs to be thrown out that there ARE legit. medical reasons WHY a person can’t BF.

  34. yikes says:

    I REALLY want to give the lady who washes only in vinegar and baking soda a chemistry lesson on acid base reactions and let he know she’s washing in water. That’s so fucking gross.

  35. me me me says:

    Girls this is a really simlpe subject really.

    98% of woman can breastfeed if they chose.

    2% of woman can’t breastfeed evn if they chose.

    98% of babies can breastfeed f allowed too.

    Unknown number of babies won’t breastfeed no matter how bad mom wants to.

    These percentages a re totally pulled out of my ass but they are close to reality.

    I think some mamas that wanetd to BF but had chalenges they could nto figure out how to over come get sensative to this topic and they shoudln’t. It’s nota dig at them, it’s not about them, it’s about woman who DO chose to not even try, give up over silly litlte things without tryingt overcome it and the flippant way “professionals” act like it’s impossibel to bf for a large percentage of woman.

    Fact, BF is not like breathing, both mom and babe have to want to do it.

    Fact, BFing is totally worth figuring out how to maek it work.

    Fact, sometimes moms just can’t figure it out no matter how bad they want to BF and then yes, FF ends up better because she’s less stresssed and thus enjoying the child.

    I didn’t gett o BF my 1st child. I was/am a die hard BFer but I had a preemi, with a lazy such, an unnecessary NICU stay for 10 days, nipple confusion, attachment issues (now that we know hes autistic it all makes sense) and I obsessed about increasing supply, pumping and working on latch issues for 6 weeks. I had planned to stay home from work for 6 mo to establish a good BFing relationship but by 5 weeks I was so spent, my son was screaming every time he saw me becasue he did NOT want to BF that I went back to work at 6 weeks to get away from it. 😦

    Did I get offended by posts on message boards like the OP? Nope, I was still a die hard BFer, even though I wasn’t able to BF my son like I wanted. I knew posts like that has nothing to do with me. They weren’t talking about mama’s like me. What I did do was hang out with Bf friendly mamas/ Learned as much as I could about what I could haev done with m y son to help avoid the issues we had and when my next son was born I was determined, but more importantly I was prepared. Prepared with more info, a support system and a better idea of what to do if things got hard. I had low supply issues with him but managed it with herbs and he never needed formula. #3 was a champ nurser too but I did get mastistic adn her thrush (not at the same time) and we delt with that well too. #4, she was my challenge. After a rough birth where she was born with a totally blue head, it was one big bruise. One side of her face drooped a lot and she was really sleepy and week. I ended up sitting on the sofa with her for like 2 or3 days (I honestly am starting to forget how bad it was) doing nothing but teaching herhow to latch, and orgainze suck, swaller, THEN breath. She totoaly had no idea how to do this stuff. Well maybe she did but her injuries made it seem impossible. But I was experienced by then, I know she soudl not die from not eattingf or a few days. I knew she had enough fat stores etc from te womb to get her by a few days. So I sat there with her, screaming from hunger, latching her on and off on and off as many tiems as it took for her to “get it”. You all know how tender nips are after birth and the latch is the worst part. But I knew if we could just tough it out a few days she’s finally figure it out and we’d be ok. I saw it happen time n time again form in my AP play groups and LL. We called it a sit in. Well finally after 2-3 days she got it fairly well. I still had to relatch her 2-4 times every feeding for 5-6 months and she still forgot what order to suck, swallow and breath in often, which resulted in her puking all her milk up on me while still feeding. I’ve never worn so much puke in my life. Did I mention I was still nursing her 2 yr old sister and 5 yr old brother during all this?

    Anyways, long story but yea, I’m glad the OP is so passionate and determined. A lot of times that’s exactly what IS needed to kick BFings ass. BF isn’t always easy and you kinda need to be a stubborn bitch to do it. If I had been half the bitch then (with #1) that I am now, he’d a been a boob baby I know it. FF for him was a bad thing, lots issue from it so I really do still feel bad 9 yrs later that I didn’t figure it out.

  36. me me me says:

    sorry for the cray amount of typos. long ass posts are hard to proof in this format. 😦

  37. nu says:

    Of course her post would cause a war….breastfeeding topics do when bringing in mainstream magazines.

    When I was a new mommy (10 years ago…my oldest just turned 10) all I had were those parenting magazines. I thought for sure I would bf. Make a long story short, I failed. I didn’t really know what the heck I was doing. My son was FF. To this day, I regret being a failure.

    I admit, bf/ff posts do strike a chord. I’ve done both. Why is that ff moms seem to justify themselves. IRL I’ve worked with moms that seem to say why they bf this long or why the ff. Just because I’m bf now, doesn’t mean that I think I’m superior! Heck, I’m encouraging either way!

    Now, I don’t even read those magazines. To me, they seem very bias.

    As for that mim(the poster that mad at the op) mom—she’s a good reminder…read all of the post before I reply!

  38. nu says:

    me me me—-through your typos….:) still a great post! 🙂

  39. indysteffanie says:

    i just want to add that i am a hard core breastfeeder, i was the mom in the nicu that they all hated.

    i fought them to let my baby non nutritive nurse from the get go…they wanted him to wait, but i told them if he could suck on a pacifier he could suck on my empty boob. i fought them on when he could actually nurse, weeks earlier than they were used to or they wanted. i wouldnt let him have bottles in the nicu. we were strictly boobie..and up till a month ago, still were.

    i was a great pumper too…in fact i donated 1000 oz of breastmilk on

    it doesnt change the fact that my kid didnt grow. last april he weighed 10lbs. in january at his first birthday he weighed barely 17.

    anyway, dont know what my point is. i guess it is that i used to feel different. i used to be much like the OP, and while people that dont even try still piss me off, i will admit not as bad as they used to…its still just eventually about a healthy baby.

  40. Hawk says:

    32.- ;(

    Your story sounds a lot like my story with my first child. 😦 Truth of the matter is, it happens to a lot of women. Birth is filled with intervention, birth is traumatic, mother and baby are separated. There is lack of support, mis-information, and lack of good education out to be had.

    We don’t exactly make it easy to a mom to breast feed (let alone in public), especially to keep breast feeding after 6 months. The message that is sent when these things happens is that their body is broken, something is wrong with them..etc. When these things are NOT true. Circumstances make things as they are, but it doesn’t mean that the body is not capable.

    A girlfriend of mine who really wanted badly to BF was convinced that she had low supply, because she wouldn’t let the baby nurse all he wanted. She was told the maximum should should nurse on one side was 10 minutes, then to switch. 0_o. By a supposedly “LC”. Which was a nurse that took one course to be ‘breastfeeding friendly’.

    Like us, I have a feeling if she has another baby it will be a different story. That baby will be able to be exclusively breast fed because she’ll know better this time around, she’ll be able to arm herself with more supportive people, and maybe have a different kind of birth.

    My critisms of the crazy lazy was not that she was crazy because of the breast feeding thing. Bitch is crazy in general. But especially the.. “I didnt read all of this.. but I am going to freak out about what I find offensive anyway.” That is par of the course with her.

  41. TL says:

    really who cares if a child got breast milk or formula? Its a parenting decision on what works for their family (I did breast feed my second, ff my first. Long story, won’t get into it) As long as the child is fed and healthy (gasp you can be healthy on formula lol) Then really mama’s need to mind their own business. I”m all for promoting BFing, I know its whats best for a babe. But seriously some people take it overboard! (I haven’t read the link at ds, but just going on what always happens when some one posts a bfing vs ffing thread lol)

  42. Monkey says:


    Thanks. I really do hope it will go better next time, I’m much more informed now and I’m hoping to have a VBAC so I can nurse sooner.

    The thing that killed me was other mamas saying I hadn’t “tried” hard enough or done all that I could. I let my son nurse ANYTIME he wanted, I read everything I could find, I really did try everything… and it sort of worked. I was able to nurse, but not exclusively. What made it the hardest was that I had done so much research because I was worried about how my breast reduction would affect my breastfeeding.

    I do believe there is a lot of misinformation out there… but I also think some of the people who claim to be bf’ing supporters do less supporting and more judging. Obviously not all, but still a fair amount. I was lucky that there were also a lot of mamas who were more than willing to help me and support me, but that didn’t make the judgments and criticisms any easier to take.

    I don’t “DS” anymore so I didn’t know mimi had done the whacky before…

    Thanks for the nice response! Here’s hoping that it goes better next time.

  43. theinvisible says:

    Whether you bf or not doesn’t define you as a mom and no one should let it. By the time you are dealing with dating and borrowing the car your milk production is but a faint memory. But I feel that anyone who wants to bf should be able to freely and anyone who needs help should get it for free. What it all boils down to is that good mom’s do what is best for their child and for them. Really. We all did/do our best. I don’t judge a good mom. Bad mom’s don’t do either. They just pour cold whole milk into a bottle and prop it up while they smoke crack.

  44. OsMos says:

    Now I feel like I need to share our story…
    I had Oliver at 24 weeks, he was already 2 weeks old before I got to hold him for the first time and the next day he was wisked away for heart surgery. He was on the vent, that didnt work so they put him on an osscillator, next step was nothing but sure death. He improved but stayed on the vent for over a month. From the vent to (cycled) cpap, he was tube fed. It wasnt until the end of our 89 day NICU stay that he was able to take a bottle, and by that time, I was beyond dry. He did get the first 6 weeks of BM, but it was such a small amount (2mm). When he came home, he was drinking 1 oz. at a feeding… I couldnt even hold my babe for months, let alone try to BF with forced air going into his lungs…

  45. volbaby07 says:

    I’ll be honest her post kind of ticked me off cause she’s bitching about something when she hasn’t even experienced it yet. I used to sit around and bitch about this magazine saying this shit about bfing and this person not doing it or giving up on it. I was all holier than thou about bfing and how I was going not going to do anything but bf my child, etc, etc, etc. And then I had him. And I had problems. I had shitty support. LCs that told me to stop, a LLL leader who told me to “come to our meeting next mo if you’re still nursing and we might can help,” and family who didn’t understand why it was important to me. I fought hard for it and managed to finally start nursing my son when he was 3.5mos and we nursed, albeit part time, until he was 21mos.
    I really wanted to post on that thread and tell her to get the stick out of her ass and knock off the attitude. Instead of sitting around bitching about mainstream stuff and this and that, do your research, don’t assume it will just happen, make sure you have your support system in place before that baby gets here and be ready to fight for it. If I had been less arrogant about thinking I knew it all and that others who didn’t bf were just quitters and lazy, etc, then maybe I would have been better prepared.
    IDK, maybe that doesn’t make sense, but it’s how I felt when I saw her thread.

  46. Hawk says:


    There are always going to be assholes, you know? I am sorry you had to go through that.

    I think sometimes the situations we are in (with labor/delivery/afterwards) can complicate things. It sounds like your body is able to produce what baby needs to be exclusive- like most of us- however, that doesn’t mean that sometimes circumstances come from beyond our control to make that kind of impossible to happen, you know?

    It took me almost a week to get my milk in with my section. For various reasons I wont bore you with here, we also only got to 6 months. Even when I was pumping every two hours, the most I could get was 4oz for an entire day. That was with taking every supplement under the son. I seriously smelled like a pancake factory.

    I faught for a VBAC for my daughter, milk came in the next day or very close to it. She was a year old a few weeks ago and we’re still BFing. So, you can do it mama!!

    While I would love to say that none of my boob nazi friends would ever do such a thing, there are crazy pants people on both sides. Again. Sorry they were such assholes to you. If they try this time around, send em over to me. 😉

    44- I am sorry about your sons pre mature birth. We actually had our March of Dimes walk this morning. In saying that, if you weren’t getting the support for pumping every two hours (not to mention the stress with a baby in the NICU. my goodness), hand expressing while pumping.. even the most diligent/hard core breastfeeding moms would likely struggle with that.

    The situation as it happened to you sucked to say the least. Doesn’t mean your body can not produce milk to nurish your baby, or that you can’t breast feed your next child. Just that something traumatic happened to both yourself and your infant, and it gave it a rough start to try to deal with. No shame in that, and no judgement either.

  47. Booyah says:

    I’m so sorry to all of you here who had trouble BFing. I can’t imagine how devastating that must have been.

    But please don’t paint all BFers with the same brush. Some people are going to be assholes no matter what you do. If you BF, you are a sicko/too poor for formula/some crunchy moonbat. If you don’t BF, you are lazy/selfish/etc. If you have a C-section, you “didn’t give birth” (what a horrible thing to say!) If you have a homebirth, you’re a hippie freak who wants to kill her baby. The list goes on and on. Just because some people are assholes doesn’t mean everyone who is pro-BFing is trying to be a jerk.

    The best thing you can do is just try your hardest to make the right decision for YOU and forget everyone else. People think they know what a person should do better than that person does. It ain’t so. If you are confident that the decisions you made were the best you could make at the time with the info you had, then there’s no need to feel guilty and defensive.

    I had a C-section with my first, and he was partially FF. But I don’t fly off the handle when people say horrible things about either of those, because I know those people are just assholes and not worth my energy. Seriously.

  48. cdc3030 says:

    32…..I totally support you! It is the lack of support in the media/culture that makes us moms afraid to do what comes naturally. We dont get the support we should so, we end up with csections and giveup on BFing. However….you did 6 months, that is cool!

    44….Of course you are an exception. Your CHILD is an exception. and REALLY not to sound like a pig, in the past, your baby would not have survived to be fed…so formula was made to support the other medical support we can now receive.

    And, my kid had a freaky small lower jaw, and could not latch worth a damn for the first 4 months. She ripped my nipples bloody, and I had to use a supplemental feeder taped to my nipple to help her get enough until she was 4mo. Fed every two hours, pumped in between. Alll day long. It was hard, but I had persistence and support. Now, my 18 mo is a total boobaholic, and shows no signs of ever stopping.

    Go moms!

  49. lollerskating says:

    Why do you people think she’s trying to debate? She said the article basically exaggerated some minor problems of braestfeeding into reasons someone CAN’T breastfeed. I never heard of someone being unable to breastfeed because of nipple leakage. It don’t have nothing to do with cleft palates, diseases, NICUs etc. The intro just makes you think you can’t nurse if you have leakage, soreness, engorgement, or nipple confusion… when really you can. You either fix the minor problem that they talk about, or you say it’s too much of a problem for you. Either way, that’s your biz.

  50. JustPeachy says:

    Steffanie Saedra was FTR as well. She was born at 7.5lbs and at her first birthday check up was at 16.5 lbs so I do feel your pain. Did you find the formula helps? If so then yes do it by all means. Heck Saedra wasn’t an EBF baby but I cut out all formula when I saw that it wasn’t doing what it was supposed to(helping her gain weight).
    And nu I too failed at bfing. I barely tried with my first. I recall trying to get her latch and then giving up before we even left the hospital. My second was a NICU baby and I was a bit more informed about bfing so I pumped like a crazy person and nursed alot while she was there. I had no idea about keeping a supply so when I lost my supply and I weaned her at 6 weeks. With Saedra I had not even colostrum after I gave birth due to the Benadryl they gave me after I broke out in hives(Benadryl does dry you up just an FYI). I ff til my milk came in and pumped like crazy just begging my breasts to give me something other then the 1ml I was getting. Then once that was done I had to work on getting her to nurse as she had nipple confusion. Long story short we managed to make it 11 months when she weaned on her own.
    It does make me angry when women give up so easily because of the hell I went thru to bf my child. I thought about giving up so many times but I knew I would feel worse then I did about giving up. The thing is at least give it the old college try. If you find you have difficulty ask for help. I guarantee if you reach out for help you will find it. Call LLL and if you are on WIC get involved in their peer to peer bfing counseling BEFORE you give birth. Take the bfing classes and visit with a lactation counselor. Basically just educate yourself about BFing.

  51. thewhiteninja says:

    Yeah, leaky nipples cause you to not BF? WTF? I have a flat nipple and had mastitis 4 times and I still manage to BF for 2 yrs without a drop of formula.

  52. theinvisible says:

    Oh yeah! Mastitis. Now that’s a load of fun. I remember the first time it happened I asked my mom how I was going to feed the baby and she told me I HAD to keep nursing. It felt like she was sucking my soul through my nipple. OMG. I’ve had it twice with each baby. Good times. I don’t even mention that when talking to potential bf’ers.

  53. Booyah says:

    Correct me if I’m wrong….but don’t leaky nipples mean your boobs are working pretty damn well???

    That’s the dumbest excuse I’ve heard yet. “O NOEZ MILK IS DRIPPING FROM MY TATAS I OBVIOUSLY CAN’T BREASTFEED”

  54. Monkey says:

    #46… I totally know that there are assholes in any group and NOW I can look back and be okay with it. But when I was not sleeping, crazy hormonal and desperately trying to bf it was hard to be rational about it, kwim?

    I just felt like there was this great pressure to “do the right thing”. And the only other new mom I knew had the perfect birth and the perfect bf’ing experience (she was the one who said I shouldn’t say I had given birth) so it was really hard.

    I will say I can’t wait to try again (just need a bun in the oven!). I’m more prepared this time and I’ve found a midwife/LC here in Korea to help with any potential problems.


  55. indysteffanie says:

    peach–he is almost 19 lbs now…so its helping.

    i cant cut the formula out, as he eats nothing by mouth….

    we finally found the cause we think tho, so hopefully once we see the neurosurgeon we can get it turned around.

    its funny tho, i cried when they had to give him an oz of formula in the nicu (took awhile for my milk to come in) but now i happly pour it right down the tube into his belly…

    ive come full circle…lol

  56. Funneh says:

    May be outing myself here, but I breastfed my preemie twins exclusively until almost seven months. Then GUESS WHAT? I voluntarily switched to formula in order to take medication that, bottom line, makes me able to be a better parent because they came to an age where they needed me to be able to function as something more than a milk machine. And to me, that’s worth it.

    I’m as much for breastfeeding as the next lactivist (I won’t even go into all the issues we had), but I DO think that overall quality of life long-term for mom and baby should be considered more than it is when it comes to making BFing decisions and I don’t think so many people should be persecuted as a consequence of their decisions.

    And sorry, but fuck people who are judgmental about it who haven’t even had the experience, LOL. I find myself mean-spiritedly hoping they have a hellish experience in order to knock them off their high horses.

  57. me says:

    Well I was offended that the 6week old baby one told me that I have no sex drive so there.

  58. me says:

    Wait, that was BabyCenter. Oops.

  59. oops says:

    #16 I was so scared into being told by “other moms” when I was preg w/DD that I would have trouble bfing because I have had hypothyroidism since age ten (been on replacement though and no issues~ I actually do pregnancy very EASY) anyway. I was worried and then when DD was born I listened to no one but her and she CLD at a bit over 4 yrs old 🙂 no formula ever no bfing issues even… so I don’t like it when new moms are scared…into this you can’t bf because BS….

    #!7 yeah… ROFLMAO!

  60. indysteffanie says:

    oh its certainly not a standard, just cause you have thyroid issues doesnt mean you will have problems.

    but i have issues with my thryroid when im preggo and have every single one of my babies early.

    im lucky as ive never really had issues bfing, just this last time for whatever reason he just wasnt growing on my milk.

    i know another mom that have had her babies early and cant produce milk at all….also thyroid issues.

  61. diudiaole says:

    I had micropreemies… pumped every 2 hours around the clock and was never able to produce more than enough milk for 1 baby, let alone 2. I did the best I could.. I remember back when I was all snobby about getting my natural birth and exclusive breastfeeding *sigh* then reality had different plans for me.

  62. theinvisible says:

    61 Doesn’t it always. My sister was really talkative while she was pregnant and I just laughed to myself. Sure enough, her reality now has no relation to what she was imagining. poor thing.

  63. werd says:

    Monkey – OMG I could have written your post myself, for the most part. Were you by chance told you didn’t “give birth” by a whack nut on!

    I think the moms who chose to FF tend to go on the D when it comes to the great mommy debate of BF vs FF. I chose to FF (yes, CHOSE) because I have mental health issues and I weaned myself off of my heavy duty meds to have a healthy pregnancy. I crawled the walls the whole time but I am proud to say I did it, and I also weaned myself for this pregnancy too (but things are going MUCH more smoothly). Once I gave birth (or didn’t, based on your opinion of an emergency c section, lol) I opted to go back on my meds and be a good mom versus staying off of them, bfing and possibly harming myself or, god forbid, my child. I don’t regret my decision at all, no matter how many times I’ve been called selfish, lazy, etc. And I have. This time I’m really devoted to trying to find a happy medium between my problems and breastfeeding, but if I can’t, I won’t beat myself up about it. Mommy wars SUCK ASS.

  64. Messy says:

    Hey Werd, if I can prove that you did not give birth, can I have that gorgeous little girl you seem to have had vaporize into your house? Some people are real dildos.

  65. werd says:

    LOL! You don’t want her right now, she is running a 101.5 fever and is a very unhappy girl 😦

  66. Messy says:

    Awe! But she will get better… And still be a SHE!!! So, yeah, I’ll take her!
    :::healing vibes:::

  67. Monkey says:


    Nope. I had a woman tell me this TO MY FACE at a party. In front of about 8 other moms, only ONE of whom called her on being a giant bitch. And this was about 3 weeks after I had my son so I was still pretty messed up about the whole c-section. The only good thing was that these women aren’t in my city, they’re in a nearby city so it’s not like I have to see them.

    At the time I felt like she was right and for months I would find excuses to not say, “When I gave birth to my son” or anything like that. I finally realized she was a giant pink cookie and that I had carried my son and he had been born. As my husband said at the time, “What a nasty cooze.”

    I respect your decision to do what was best for your family. I guess that was the whole point I was trying to make was that people need to understand that there are extenuating circumstances that can effect the choices we make.

    And you’re totally one of my favoritest posters! I’m glad this pregnancy is going better for you.

    #64 Messy… Werd’s daughter may have vaporized into her house… my son was a Cabbage Patch kid!

  68. Messy says:

    Ok, fine cabbage patch. Where can I get a baby girl??? Dh seems to be male-sperm enhanced!

  69. Monkey says:


    I don’t know. I have a deep terror of having a girl for our next one. I would have NO idea what to do with a girl. I hate pink, dolls, make up and clothes.

    Fortunately DH and I are both from boy heavy families.

    Korean tradition says if you eat oysters you’ll have a girl… don’t know if that helps.

  70. werd says:

    holy crap, she said that TO YOUR FACE?! Man, that soon after my c/s, I would have bitch slapped a hoe. I was a beast for like the entire month and a half after I had Carly!

    I’m absolutely terrified to have a boy. I don’t know what to do with a peen! I will be so very happy if we get another girl!

  71. Monkey says:

    I was so guilty and depressed I thought she was right.

    I seriously thought my husband was going to kill her though. He was so pissed.

  72. werd says:

    yeah that is total bs. I hate the “holier than thou” moms who are clearly a much better parent than you, because they had a completely unmedicated natural unassisted home birth completly by themselves, in their blow up pool out back filled with Evian, then ate their own placenta just so that they could pass the nutrients on by exclusively BFing for 5 years. Oh yeah and then they recycled the birth water by watering their completely organic garden with it, from which all of their homemade baby food is made.

    Whatev dude. I had an emergency c section, I forumla fed my kid, she eats spaghettios for lunch and she is 28 months and can count to 12 and knows her colors, so obviously I didn’t do too badly.

    I admire moms who can have unassisted births, home births, natural non-medicated births, etc but don’t make me feel like less of a mom because my baby was surgically removed. Any mom who had a c section birth can tell you, we feel disconnected from the birth as it is, without being told we are lazy, wrong, not strong enough, etc.

  73. Monkey says:

    73… okay, “ate their own placenta” gave me a serious ick. I tried to laugh and vomit at the same time!

    I know. I hate the holier than thou thing too… sure, I make my own baby food, but it’s not a judgment on anyone else… it’s just what works for my family. I’m fortuante to have a huge fruit/vegetable market about 3 blocks from my house.

    I definitely agree with the feeling disconnected from a c-section birth. I woke up alone in a recovery room calling for my husband and son having no idea what had happened. I couldn’t look at Facebook for days because the one other pregnant Westerner in my city posted pictures of her, her husband and her son in the birthing room and it broke my heart. All I could think about was the fact that I would never have those pictures and neither DH or I were there (well, I was there, knocked out) when our son came into the world.

    Also, spaghetti-o’s are awesome! We can’t get them in Korea. 😦

  74. werd says:

    Yeah, I have 2 pictures – one of her just out from my c/s, one of the 3 of us and that’s it. I didn’t get to hold my daughter for 5 1/2 hours after birth. C/S suck, I don’t know why anyone who had the choice would elect to have one!

    Where are you in Korea? My BIL is stationed there, he’s in the ARMY but coming home soon to turn around and get deployed to Afghanistan 😦

  75. Monkey says:

    I’m in Mokpo, at the very bottom of the peninsula. Wow. I wish he were staying here instead of going to Afghanistan, Korea is SOOOO much better.

    I don’t have a photograph of me with my son until THE NEXT DAY. After I screamed and yelled they finally carried him into the recovery room and laid him on my chest for about 5 minutes. I hemorraged after the surgery and things were pretty ugly for awhile and DS was born in distress so we didn’t really get any time together. Plus Koreans do things a little differently. Yeah, I totally do not understand the whole “c-section by choice” thing. But hey, it’s not my body.

    I just so hope I can have my VBAC next time.

  76. Booyah says:

    Hey now, I ate my placenta. 😉 It was delicious.

    I just hate that moms feel that they have to put other moms down to feel better about their own choices. I think my choices ROCK (for me!) and I don’t need to tell moms who make different choices that theirs suck so mine look better. That’s so grade school.

    And yeah, C-sections fucking blow. Which is why I had a homebirth the next time. 🙂

  77. Monkey says:

    Booyah, I suggested homebirth when I found out how hard it was to find a hospital willing to do a VBAC in Korea. DH went ballistic. Turns out the whole me hemoraghing and having a bad reaction anesthestia thing last time kind of bugged him out. I kept trying to explain that all of the issues were because of the c-section… but he is so bugged out he will not even consider it. Plus the closest midwife is like 4 hours away.

    And yeah, I don’t feel the need to slam another’s decisions to make my own look better. We all do what is best for our family.

    And did you really eat the placenta or were you just joshing with me?

  78. Booyah says:

    Nope, I really ate it. I cut it up, froze the chunks, and put them in smoothies with strawberries, bananas and ice cream. It was yummy, you couldn’t even tell it was in there. I’m not sure if it was as beneficial as they say it is, but hey, at least I have the ultimate trump card when it comes to the “crunchier than thou” argument (kidding). 😉

    Honestly, the cutting-up part was a thousand times worse than the eating. It was all slimy and bloody like a big smelly piece of liver. I nearly ralphed half a dozen times just cutting it. I wanted DH to do it but he was even more chickenshit than I was.

  79. Monkey says:

    Ha! I think my DH would be the same way.

    That’s awesome… but I just don’t know if I could ever be that crunchy… I think my cruchy extends to babywearing, bf’ing and making babyfood… and of course cloth diapers.

    We have a new teacher at my school and she made me soooo happy. My son came up after school to visit and she was like, “I spy a cloth butt!” I was like, “OMG! Someone who doesn’t think he just has a giant butt!”

  80. werd says:

    Booyah, you are a far better woman than I! I saw when they delivered the placenta – PUUUUUUKE!!

  81. oops says:

    I read something really annoying it just rubbed me the WRONG way but I can’t comment on it over there…

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