http://www.diaperswappers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=363820

courtney_adkins05 03-13-2008 11:01 AM

a story about a mom who expected 1 and had twins update #20
saw a post about this the other day…and then heard about my close friend who was expecting a singleton – ended up having twins…this was her email to our moms group:

Yes 2 boys. The first was 4lbs something. The 2nd about 7 lbs. Both
babies are in the NICU. The smaller is on a respirator. The 2nd larger
is on CPAP. The 2nd is doing well. We won’t know for a few days on
the 2nd were still deciding on names.

Mommy to Tommy 23 months 3/06 + new baby due 4/2008

i used to babysit for her older son and she was my doula for my 2nd child. during her whole pregnancy we asked if it was twins and she was like..haha not funny…she carried so up and out there this time around but not actually BIGGER than the first time. just different…she was wider the first time and this time high and straight out 🙂

here is a copied post from our local group (from her mothers blessing)
http://www.dfwareamoms.com/forums/sh…ighlight

for more info PM me 😉 …since my other thread was killed by a mod

SillyJessi 03-15-2008 12:15 AM

Re: a story about a mom who expected 1 and had twins
i’m 8 months w/o “prenatal care” by a doctor. have been having people ask me if its twins. but when i ask people tell me i’m ridiculous, it can’t be twins cause I’d be so much bigger… well I AM bigger than i was with my son, carrying differently. and I’ve been suspecting it for months.if it is twins, i bet one is smaller than the other (quite a bit) and they will be term, boy / girl with a fat girl and skinny boy. this is also based off a dream I had.

we’ll find out in 5 weeks! 😀

it is possible, without the “routine” sonos (still not recommended as routine!! sonos have not been proven “safe”!), and apparently every one carries differently, gains more or less, etc etc, cant always get two heartbeats, can’t always palpate or tell by kicks, etc… i think it’s suppost to be a suprise in some cases.

Ohh i just got all excited again.

ekmaurer3 03-16-2008 11:48 AM

Re: a story about a mom who expected 1 and had twins
Quote:

Originally Posted by SillyJessi (Post 3043999)
i’m 8 months w/o “prenatal care” by a doctor. have been having people ask me if its twins. but when i ask people tell me i’m ridiculous, it can’t be twins cause I’d be so much bigger… well I AM bigger than i was with my son, carrying differently. and I’ve been suspecting it for months.if it is twins, i bet one is smaller than the other (quite a bit) and they will be term, boy / girl with a fat girl and skinny boy. this is also based off a dream I had.

we’ll find out in 5 weeks! 😀

it is possible, without the “routine” sonos (still not recommended as routine!! sonos have not been proven “safe”!), and apparently every one carries differently, gains more or less, etc etc, cant always get two heartbeats, can’t always palpate or tell by kicks, etc… i think it’s suppost to be a suprise in some cases.

Ohh i just got all excited again.


why would you choose no prenatal care? I do understand no ultrasounds, but no prenatal care at all?
Do you check your BP, or do pee strips at home to check proteins in your urine?So many things can happen so quickly. Like pre-eclampsia or HELLP syndrome. A drop in babys hearrate. things that need to be monitored.
yellowcampcat 03-16-2008 01:52 PM

Re: a story about a mom who expected 1 and had twins update #20
My mom had us at 30 weeks and didn’t know we were twins until the week before bc the ob “thought he felt two heads” lol!I know there is controversy about u/s, but in the case of twin, there can be fetal to fetal transfusion which can cause the loss of or damage to one baby. I also just had friends who had a baby with a severe oomphalocele which required immediate attention. If they hadn’t had u/s, they might have lost him. I’m sorry, but I think refusing any u/s is foolish.
tinyblackdot 03-16-2008 05:49 PM

Re: a story about a mom who expected 1 and had twins update #20
Quote:

Originally Posted by courtney_adkins05 (Post 3054373)
yeah…thanks for the input…i support natural births and births that are free of pointless medical intervention. there was no previous issue that said she was at risk for anything there for sono was not NEEDED. how do you think ppl had babies prior to sono’s?yeah…they had none and waited til the birth. i plan to do the same next time.

Am i the only on that thinks this is appalling?

I really don’t want to judge anyone here, but it just seems to me that there is a BIG difference between no so nos and no prenatal care at all. Why would you risk it? I’m sure that she had to convince herself that nothing was going to happen out of the ordinary in order to do a home birth, and something did.
I understand that in the “olden” days people did this all of the time, but thy had no choices! Why would you choose no prenatal care when you have the choice too have it? I’m not saying have a sono, or an amnio, or whatever, but to just check the heartbeat(s) and see how everyone is doing? How about just going in 1 time?

I think that women that choose this route are just gambling with the life of their children, and its horrible! (not home births)

The stats of someone breaking into your car or your home are very very low, but we all still lock our doors at night and take precautions to keep that very low chance from ever happening.

I don’t understand how some can sit there and make women feel so bad for turning their car seats around at 1 year, and yet you are willing to take the chance and risk not only their lives but the lives of the mother as well.

DO you think anyone “wants” to go to the Dr every month or have blood work taken or have to go to the hospital or have a midwife? Nope, but we all do it for the health and benefit of our unborn baby(s).

courtney_adkins05 03-16-2008 06:11 PM

Re: a story about a mom who expected 1 and had twins update #20
Quote:

Originally Posted by tinyblackdot (Post 3055524)
Am i the only on that thinks this is appalling?I really don’t want to judge anyone here, but it just seems to me that there is a BIG difference between no so nos and no prenatal care at all. Why would you risk it? I’m sure that she had to convince herself that nothing was going to happen out of the ordinary in order to do a home birth, and something did.
I understand that in the “olden” days people did this all of the time, but thy had no choices! Why would you choose no prenatal care when you have the choice too have it? I’m not saying have a sono, or an amnio, or whatever, but to just check the heartbeat(s) and see how everyone is doing? How about just going in 1 time?

I think that women that choose this route are just gambling with the life of their children, and its horrible! (not home births)

The stats of someone breaking into your car or your home are very very low, but we all still lock our doors at night and take precautions to keep that very low chance from ever happening.

I don’t understand how some can sit there and make women feel so bad for turning their car seats around at 1 year, and yet you are willing to take the chance and risk not only their lives but the lives of the mother as well.

DO you think anyone “wants” to go to the Dr every month or have blood work taken or have to go to the hospital or have a midwife? Nope, but we all do it for the health and benefit of our unborn baby(s).


this isnt the thread to start posting about your preference for prenatal care…im not here to ask what people do…i am trying to help out a friend in need. that is it…please take the drama to another thread…thanks
OK, really. Someone just had a surprise set of twins. Whether or not they were right or wrong about prenatal care should really be hashed out elsewhere, no? I just think it’s a bit tacky. You know how many times I’ve wanted to bring up a thread about co-sleeping that I’d love to say something about, but because it’s someone grieving, I just know it’s not appropriate. Same goes here. There’s two little babies, one doing good, one not doing all that great, just give some prayers or whatever it is you do and go on. No need to get into the “prenatal care” debate.
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Comments
  1. Nadine says:

    f’ing mommy wars, seriously. I think women have an uncanny talent to bring it to anything. I wish people would think before they speak, and really.. what does it hurt them if someone refuses prenatal care.
    People need to get over themselves

  2. Green~Mammy says:

    That was pretty insensitive. Mommy wars suck hard core.

  3. livinnaturally says:

    Actually, playing devil’s advocate, but IMO. prenatal care isn’t all that needed. Alot of women do unassisted pregnancy and they are very educated and are making that choice. We should ALL be able to make the choices we want when it comes to pregnancy and childbirth. It’s better for women who are deemed low risk to have little to no dr intervention.

  4. I just have to say says:

    I really don’t know why that story even ended up on DS. I wonder if the mama of the twins even knew it was all out there.

    I live where that story took place and I’ve heard about it through some mutual friends of the mama.

    With all she has going on in her life right now I’m sure she didn’t want people posting her story on a public message board.

  5. what on earth says:

    Hey I need the email of the lady who runs this group I have a good story!

  6. lysol says:

    share it here with us :>

  7. what on earth says:

    lol ok, I just thought it might be blog worthy lol.

    So I posted a couple of threads, one thats still up (giving away my username here, oh well) “whats with closing the threads” which I asked why they are closing the threads rather than just answering the questions. To which Juan replied by closing my thread lol and the second thread (its deleted) asked why there seems to be an insatiable need to lock threads lately? I worded it politely and made sure it wasn’t against ds rules, but it got deleted anyway. Then got a PM from Juan saying that I needed to change my avi (it was a pretty darn funny avi, guy has no sense of humor) and that if I needed to stop starting threads that question the admins. or mods. or I would get a strike. Basically the PM said that quit questioning what I say or I’ll give you a strike. Aparently questioning what the admin says or does is “redundant and unnecessary” (Juan’s words). So anyway thought I’d share that it seems that questioning the admin is now against the rules!

  8. T-mama says:

    Personally I think it is ridiculous for anyone to admit to the fact that they don’t do any prenatal care. I also think it is ridiculous to brag about it. Additionally, these women don’t have anything else better to do than build themselves up like the queens they think they are… let them battle it out. We can pray for the little ones – but we know that when you ignore possibilities of complications during pregnancy (i.e., lack of prenatal care), shit like this happens. Sad – but true.

  9. DS Drama Mama 2 says:

    Medical Doctors weren’t used in the US for birth/prenatal care until the 1930s? I think? Since then, the rate of infant and maternal death has sky rocketed. Past a lot of 3rd world countries.

    I think it is more dangerous to have a doctor deliver a child than a mother in over 95% of cases.

    🙂

  10. T-mama says:

    “Medical Doctors weren’t used in the US for birth/prenatal care until the 1930s? I think? Since then, the rate of infant and maternal death has sky rocketed. Past a lot of 3rd world countries.

    I think it is more dangerous to have a doctor deliver a child than a mother in over 95% of cases. ”

    ARE YOU NUTS?! Cite your sources! This sounds like bull!

  11. DS Drama Mama 2 says:

    Nope, not nuts mama. The bradley method classes actually teach some of those facts (like the IV introduction fact).

    Also, check out your facts on when OB care was “forced” onto women in the US. It was in the 30’s, maybe the 10s.

    But we are behind countries like Cuba with I/M mortality rates.

    You should really do YOUR research 🙂 Or even for a quick fix, watch the Ricki Lake Documentary.

  12. DS Drama Mama 2 says:

    http://www.cnn.com/2006/HEALTH/parenting/05/08/mothers.index/index.html here is a link for infant mother mortality rates.

  13. DS Drama Mama 2 says:

    Home birth is as safe or safer in about 95% of all cases. Every other country in the world, including all the ones rating better than us, believe this and provide mothers with that opportunity.

    C-S rates in the US are about 30% higher than they should be too.

  14. T-mama says:

    “C-S rates in the US are about 30% higher than they should be too”

    Is there some sort of predetermined number of CS that is “acceptable” in the USA?

    Curious because if you take a mom who has a breech baby, or one with twins, is it really wrong for them to want a CS over a difficulty vaginal birth with the possibility of a horrible outcome?

    Also that CNN article doesn’t say anything about how infant and/or mother mortality is related to the rise in “forced” (your words) prenatal care. If anything, it directly relates mortality to poor income levels, poor education, and poor opportunities.

    Just another example of how those who “think” that know what is best take studies like this and skew it to fit “their” ideas of how medical advances have put people at a disadvantage. If you actually believe that “forced” prenatal care is directly related to infant/mother mortality rates, you are in a fog of disillusions.

  15. T-mama says:

    Also – the article reads:
    “In top-ranked Sweden, skilled personnel are present at nearly all births, but in bottom-ranked Niger, such help is available for only 16 percent of women in labor.”

    TRANSLATION: Those who have SKILLED people attending births are more likely to have successful (non-life-threatening) births than those who try to birth at home with unskilled attendants. And in this country, the most SKILLED person you are going to find will be an OB/GYN in most every case.

  16. DS Drama Mama 2 says:

    That article is not the study done by the WHO. It was the first on google.

    $$ and education has no relevance on I&M rates in industrialized countries or Cuba wouldn’t be higher than we are.

    Obviously you KNOW better than everyone else.

    But yes, the average rate for C/S should be around 5-7%. it is over 35% in the US. We have the highest C/S rate and infant death rate. Not to mention Mother death rate.

  17. theboardbitch says:

    Mommy wars are so last year

  18. “Mommy wars are so last year”

    Exactly.

  19. cassie says:

    aw DS DM2, youʻre a bradley mama? ME TEWWWWWW!!

  20. I'm Just Saying..... says:

    Ooooh, I’m a Bradley Mommy too!!!

  21. T-mama says:

    “It was the first on google.”

    Then perhaps when trying to make a valid point, you should submit valid points of interest.

    Your ideas are flawed, not backed by any information that I can find.

    Everything points to prenatal care being best for mothers and babies.

    Prenatal care was never “forced” upon Americans.

    Income and educational levels ARE facts relative to the rate of infant and maternal mortality rates. Again, you are ignoring the obvious.

    You can believe what you want – science doesn’t back it.

  22. DS Drama Mama 2 says:

    Yup, I am a 4 time Bradley mama, 1 time on my own before I heard about it, lol.

    T-mama, believe what you want. But our current structure of birthing is not what it needs to be in the United States. There are not any “fair” facts on either side, but our rates of CS, death, and subsequent illness are far worse than almost every industrialized nation. Do your own research, judge others if you want. But babies do not need to be born in a hospital, moms don’t need to see an OB, and the states/CPS/laws should have no say in it.

    I’m over this conversation. It is kind of like debating abortion or racists. No points are going to change your mind.

    I do urge everyone to watch “The business of being born.” It is a very FAIR documentary to both sides.

  23. lysol says:

    OH JEEZE SEEING AN OB/GYN DURING PREGNANCY IS A MATTER OF LIFE OR DEATH!
    THANKS T-MAMA FOR ALL THAT INFORMATION AND HELPING ME SEE THE LIGHT!
    HOW STUPID AM I FOR NOT ALLOWING OB/GYNS BE GODS. HAH!
    WELL I ONLY GRADUATED FROM COLLEGE WITH A 3.86 GPA LAST YEAR SO I GUESS I’M PRETTY STUPID!
    FUXORZ.

  24. I'm Just Saying..... says:

    I had an ob that I used to go to try to give me a drug for cervix softening that the MANUFACTURER had sent a notice out to all OB’s that it was NOT to be used in that manner. It had been known to cause uterine rupture and death. You could not stop the results of the drug either. She actually yelled at me and told me off when I refused the medication. I ended up AMA and finding another doctor who would give me a drug I was more comfortable with.

    yes, doctors DO have God complexes and will often ignore statistics thinking they know it all. If you are one of those people who blindly follow doctors advise without checking things out yourself, you are a fool. Doctors are HUMAN and they can and do make mistakes. That is one reason it is often safer to have your baby at home. Also, there are sooooo many diseases running rampant in any hospital at any given time. Really, your body is used to any bacteria in your own home and you are much less likely to get sick there, and so is your baby. Your chances and your babies chances of contracting a disease in a hospital setting are much higher.

    I could go on and on and on, but the info is out there if you look. Obviously you only want your point to be right.

    And the only reason I found out about the drug, is because I am a Bradley mom and I had people I could call to check on it for me while I was sitting in the hospital refusing to allow anyone to touch me until I got A. Dinner and B. Information.

  25. Laura says:

    T-Mama,

    Most of the women (that I know) that choose to have no prenatal care done by a medical professional are anything but ignorant to the complications that can arise in pregnancy. To the contrary, I think that we take a much more serious approach to our health and well being because we do not have a medical doctor looking over us.

    I was so aware of everything that was happening in my body during my pregnancy. I was so in tune that I knew whenever something was “off”. I knew exactly where my placenta lay, and what that could mean. I knew when I needed more protein in my diet, or to drink more water. I would have known if I had needed to seek out degreed assistance.

    Unassisted pregnancy (and birth) is most certainly not for everyone. But, the majority of us who do make the decision to do it unassisted, we do it for the right reasons and we the main one is wanting the best for our children.

    Isn’t that what all of us mamas want? The best possible everything for the children that we love so much? Just because I feel that the best way for my child to come into this world is through the least amount of intervention possible does not make me a negligent mother. Just like choosing to have a c-section and drugs during labor does not make the girl down the street a negligent mother. We all do what we think is right, and as long as our children are thriving and we can sleep at night, does it really matter how we get there?

    Laura
    (L J)

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