momtocole&parker 02-06-2008 08:09 PM
Am I not green because I want more kids?I have 2 DS’s now and I’d like one or two more. I’m 35 so maybe one of our own and then adopt one. Anyways, I am more than happy with my two but I’d love a bigger family. Anyways, after a friend was asking me about all the green things we do around here, she asked me if I can really consider myself green if I want a bigger family…”that the world is overpopulated and the environment is suffering because of our actions as it is. Should I really bring more consumers (especially american consumers) into this world.” I felt bad afterwards. I coudlnt even come back with anything to her. I’ve kinda felt guilty since she told me this and I cant get it out of my mind. I’d really like more children but I dont want to feel guilty. I do worry that our children and children’s children will be having to clean up the mess that we have been creating and that scares me. I’m hoping my children will be stewards of the environment and care about the world around them.
Anyways, please help me not feel guilty, or was she right? :goodvibes:

No one should make you feel bad for wanting to birth your own flesh and blood. Your friend is NOT right, despite these comments:

marieliza 02-06-2008 11:45 PM
Re: Am I not green because I want more kids?

Well, I’m really not trying to make you feel guilty, but will probably end up upsetting some . . . . I agree with your friend.

Before I get into this though, I want to say that it is your decision and you should do what you want and feel is best for your family. I do love that you are considering adoption. Also, I have a birth child of my own and would like to have another, so I certainly don’t have an extremist view of this. I want two birth children because that is an ideal family size for me and I have decided that if I want more than that then I will adopt. That is what I want and what works for my family (provided I can even convince DH that we should have another :giggle: ) Please don’t consider me to be bashing your family wants and wishes. I figure since you asked you’d probably appreciate info from both sides.

But now for the ‘how can having more children be not green’ schpiel . . .
Pretty much any environmental problem you can come up with comes down to the problem of our planet being way too overpopulated. And a lot of economic, social, etc. ones too. One of the biggest ones being habitat destruction – We can’t support this many people (especially the way we live – yes it could be better if we all lived “green”, but that’s a whole other topic) without destroying natural habitat for land to live on, food, energy, goods, etc. Most scientists agree that global warming is in large part caused by human activity. Air and water pollution are the result of human impact. The list goes on and on.

Honestly, I think water is going to be the next huge crisis and I imagine we will all be impacted by it within our lifetime (if you’re not already). Clean, unpolluted drinking water is becoming a scarcity. It could likely be the cause of some major wars in the near future. It’s polluted for many reasons, but all of them are human related. Agriculture is a big one as the pesticides do horrible things to our water. It’d be nice to say, “well, we just need to produce more organic natural food” Unfortunately this is not a realistic approach to feeding all the people in the world as organically grown food takes a lot more effort and land and just would not be adequate to feed the population. It is because of genetic engineering and pesticides and such that we have been able to feed so many people (and many not very well).

However, most of the population growth is happening in the developing world; developed nations are mostly at or near replacement rates of birth/deaths/immigration/emigration so a few more children here may not make as big of a difference. Although you are correct in your statement about american consumer and of the developed nations I think that the U.S. has one of the highest growth rates (immigration is also factored into this and many population activists will argue that immigration is a big population problem). I should stop rambling, as I’m tired and I know that this isn’t the most well written reply. A really good resource is the audubon society. They have a great program that deals with population and habitat. Basically they are working towards getting more family plannning and education to some of these developing nations where population rates are skyrocketing. Female education is the probably the best thing that can be done to help limit populations in countries where many children are had and women have little to no choice or knowledge of birth control and the idea that you can actually plan how many children you have. Check out their website they have a really great program.

I really don’t mean to make you feel guilty. In doing green things you are helping to offset your impact and the children you raise will likely have a high awareness of the planet around them. This will be reflected in the way they live and hopefully they can help to extend the survival of our species. I do believe that overpopulation is a huge threat to our planet, but I also believe that our planet will survive us. The human species will die out and probably take many others along with it, but the planet over time will rebound and continue on. So my thoughts are that I will do what I can to make the planet a better place for me and my children and hopefully their children too!

I hate this argument. Ending reproduction is not the answer. Limiting reproduction is not the answer. Will you also argue that all the medical advances that keep people alive should be done away with? Should we go back to the days when living until 50 was almost unheard of? Let’s expand the death penalty to all criminals, that’ll help.  Ooh, I got another one: let’s commend murderers for helping with population control. Give me a break!

krpdreams 02-07-2008 04:26 AM
Re: Am I not green because I want more kids?

JMO opinion here but I do thik people should limit to 2 kids. That will replace you and your SO. That’s all that neds to be done to sustain life. If you want more than that I would say adopt the kids that are already born. Yes a larger family can be less damaging than a highly consumeristic small family, but you are still going to have to use additional resources, you still have to provide food and shelter and then they will move out an dprovide their own food and shelter and produce more children. My biology proffessor, who graduated college in the 70’s so it’s not like he is really old or anything, told us yesterday that when he was in school(i forget exactly which part of school sorry) the world’s population was 3 billion, it is now 6.3 billion. It has more than doubled in his lifetime, which has been less than 70 years I would guess closer to 60 years. At this rate the world will reach it’s maximum capacity for humans very soon. Part of the reason is because of advances in medicine and longer lifespans but part of it is just too many kids per person. Yes animals have several babies in the wild, but most do not survive and that’s why they have so many. As humans most our children do survive now and therefore we don’t need as many. You really only nedd 2 kids and it wouldn’t be bad if people only had 1 because the population is increasing too quickly.
All that to say does it make you not green, no because being green isn’t all or nothing but something to think about.

Limit to 2 kids and then adopt? So, because someone else was irresponsible and brought a life into this world and handed over to the system, I should somehow limit my blood line to pick up their slack? Um, no. How about we make birth control, condoms, and sterilization more readily available? And how about we tell those damn picketers to get from in front of the abortion clinics? Rather than force others to pick up the slack of someone that can’t take care of their own offspring. And how about doing something about unfit parents, rather than just letting them reproduce and continue to take their offspring? Don’t punish me because of them.

mommaduck 02-07-2008 07:55 AM
Re: Am I not green because I want more kids?

Agreeing with the poster that bigger families that are taught to be more green-conscious are better than all the 1-2 child families that don’t care and are greater consumers than a large family.

Most large families, particularly nowadays, reuse, recycle, do what they can to be self sufficient, are most likely to breastfeed and cloth-diaper, etc. Just my experience. Thus, though there are more of them, they are causing less destruction than your average nuclear family. I know many that also live multigenerationally (taking in elderly relatives)…this is also a way of not increasing consumerism, not destroying land for more places to live, or eating up resources.

I don’t buy into the overpopulation theory. And most of our world’s issues are issues that are caused by governments…not the amount of people.

Beyond that…as far as I’m concerned…it’s NO ONE’S BUSINESS what size family you choose to have or if you choose to birth them or adopt them.

Exactly! Tell people to butt out! Adoption is great, and people that do it are awesome, but adoption shouldn’t be someone’s only choice if they want a large family. I’ll have 20 kids if I want, and won’t feel an ounce of guilt.

  1. Kelly says:

    Ironically, this came up on another board where the Duggars were being discussed. Overpopulation was mentioned, etc. How do you decide what is too big? Sure, 17 kids is alot, but couldn’t all the same arguments against 17 be made for…. lets say 3 kids???? Its the same reasons. So who can really say what’s too big and what’s not. Would our population be better served if less people had children? Sure… but that’s not likely unless we go all Brave New World on the planet, and that’s not likely.

  2. Kelly says:

    Can I use “likely” any more in one sentence? Not likely.

  3. DS Drama Mama says:

    I hope we don’t get to the Brave New World or 1984 point. I can’t believe this is even an issue. What’s next? Mandatory sterilization?

  4. Giggle says:

    Frankly I see no point in arguing such a moot point. The fact is that being part of the US means that citizens are free to make decisions based on their own beliefs and should not be judged.

    Regardless of the opinoin, why are we blowing hot air over something that, unless you are a lobbyist and going to be lobbying for such things at the white house, nobody has control over.

    Get over it, move on, and take care of your own back yard first 😉

  5. DS Drama Mama says:

    See Giggle, I like you. 😉

  6. Kayla says:

    Oh my..I can’t even begin to want to argue this but I won’t. To each his own and thats just it. I have 2 kids right now, and just cause we are having world issues, doesn’t mean that I intend to stop having children. I don’t plan on having 20, but the fact that I’d love about 5 doesn’t scare me, nor should it scare anyone else.

    This just seems like a scare tactic…and just one step closer to the government have more control over our lives that we never gave them the right to.


  7. Giggle says:

    I dunno, that depends on how you look at it. We gave them some control in that we voted those people in to make decisions on our behalf (let’s face it, we can’t all head out to vote everyday ) and regardless of the decision there’s always going to be groups of people who are not happy with each and every one of those decisions.

  8. DS Drama Mama says:

    Well, not everyone votes them in, and that means there are people that will not agree, and will not like the decisions. Everyone may not be happy, but they should still be able to voice their concerns on the matter. Isn’t there a debate right now on DS regarding “true Christians?” And many are basing their votes on 2 small issues when you look at the big picture.

  9. DS Drama Mama says:

    And, unfortunately, the majority of people these days are not as informed as they need to. To think the uninformed will rule because they are the majority scares me.

  10. Giggle says:

    You and me both! Reminds me of a Simpsons Episode (I think) where someone was running for a gov’t position, and were giving well informed answers, but the other party was just repeating the same thing “Better health care” or something like that to answer all the questions! This reminds me so much of the general populus nowadays and truthfully, the lack of education is what is causing the country (any democratic country at that) to slide downhill.

  11. Giggle says:

    I haven’t but after reading the synopsis I know what we’ll be watching this weekend 😀 Thanks!

  12. Sarah says:

    “I hope we don’t get to the Brave New World or 1984 point. I can’t believe this is even an issue. What’s next? Mandatory sterilization?”

    I cant believe its an issue either….oye!

    I need to read 1984 again…its been a while!

  13. DS Drama Mama 2 says:

    1984 is a GREAT read!!! Everyone needs a copy on hand!

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